Mm. A lot of them were young conscripts. Just kids. And violating international law with dubious arguments doesn’t sit right. With me, at least.
I don’t know that I have any strong condemnation for the occupied countries who used German PoWs in that way, considering that the question becomes who is going to die rather than if someone is going to die with the post-war situation being what it was. But it’s still something that sits uneasy.
The even larger issue, one that underpins a lot of laws of warfare, is that you want people to have every good reason to surrender. If POWs have to be treated according to specific laws, then everyone knows approximately how bad it can be, and they all know that at the worst, they can surrender. If you can set POWs to work clearing minefields or commit any other given atrocities against them, then armies have every reason to fight to the death rather than surrender when backed into a corner, and that doesn’t do anyone any good.
it’s a fair point. but the reality of many wars reaching a point of “total war” ware both sides abandon any rules agreed to or even within their own cultural norms, it has a limit to how effective it will be.
surrendering in a losing war very early and quickly is wise, but few people who are running a country at war are wise or motivated by any form of loss reduction.
I knew a professor from Austria who was 15 near the end of the war. His school gave the class a choice of enlistments: Army, Navy (u boat), or airforce. He said none and was mocked and shunned by his classmates. When the tanks rolled into town he was handed a rifle and promptly ran up to the first tank to surrender.
Mm. A lot of them were young conscripts. Just kids.
have you dealt with teenagers?
Hell, have you dealt with Toddlers? they will look you in the eye while asking you if the thing they are actively doing , which they KNOW they are not meant to do , is an OK thing to do.
If your ass ended up in the nazi army, fucking go clear that minefield. You enjoyed setting it up, now dismantle it you sack of shit.
Hell, have you dealt with Toddlers? they will look you in the eye while asking you if the thing they are actively doing , which they KNOW they are not meant to do , is an OK thing to do
… okay? I don’t understand the relevance there.
If your ass ended up in the nazi army, fucking go clear that minefield. You enjoyed setting it up, now dismantle it you sack of shit.
Considering the conscription policies and casualty rates of Nazi Germany, it’s doubtful that many of those involved in setting up the minefields were sent to disarm them after the war.
Most people, when confronted with the possibility of execution for refusal, will not become valiant martyrs when presented with a conscription notice. Nor will most people develop in such a way as to preplan their martyrdom against the social norms of their society out of some inborn shared morality. Kids in particular lack the life experience to know just how fucked what they’re being told is. Fuck, man, an entire generation volunteered to die on the fields of WW1 because dumb 18-20 year old kids were told it was sweet and fitting to die for their fucking country.
The point of totalitarian states is the subversion of the whole of society, to the point where it is nearly impossible to get by without some level of ‘compromise’ of oneself. I don’t really see the position that everyone who didn’t resist the Nazis is deserving of a gruesome death. The Morgenthau Plan is more along those lines, if you want to get into the business of genocide-for-genocide.
Anyone wearing a fascist’s uniform is fair game during the war. Anyone wearing a fascist’s uniform should be investigated and prosecuted for anything done during the war. But taking the dregs conscripted by the end of the war and treating them all as full partners in the Nazi experiment, and equally deserving of punishment for the regime’s crimes?
Nah, man. I’m not going to condemn the occupied countries for going that route given their circumstances, but I’m also not going to pretend like it’s not an immensely ugly choice that was made.
You know what? I am okay with this!
Mm. A lot of them were young conscripts. Just kids. And violating international law with dubious arguments doesn’t sit right. With me, at least.
I don’t know that I have any strong condemnation for the occupied countries who used German PoWs in that way, considering that the question becomes who is going to die rather than if someone is going to die with the post-war situation being what it was. But it’s still something that sits uneasy.
The even larger issue, one that underpins a lot of laws of warfare, is that you want people to have every good reason to surrender. If POWs have to be treated according to specific laws, then everyone knows approximately how bad it can be, and they all know that at the worst, they can surrender. If you can set POWs to work clearing minefields or commit any other given atrocities against them, then armies have every reason to fight to the death rather than surrender when backed into a corner, and that doesn’t do anyone any good.
it’s a fair point. but the reality of many wars reaching a point of “total war” ware both sides abandon any rules agreed to or even within their own cultural norms, it has a limit to how effective it will be.
surrendering in a losing war very early and quickly is wise, but few people who are running a country at war are wise or motivated by any form of loss reduction.
I knew a professor from Austria who was 15 near the end of the war. His school gave the class a choice of enlistments: Army, Navy (u boat), or airforce. He said none and was mocked and shunned by his classmates. When the tanks rolled into town he was handed a rifle and promptly ran up to the first tank to surrender.
It’s not near the hundred worst things that happened due to WW2, though it’s not alright either.
have you dealt with teenagers?
Hell, have you dealt with Toddlers? they will look you in the eye while asking you if the thing they are actively doing , which they KNOW they are not meant to do , is an OK thing to do.
If your ass ended up in the nazi army, fucking go clear that minefield. You enjoyed setting it up, now dismantle it you sack of shit.
… okay? I don’t understand the relevance there.
Considering the conscription policies and casualty rates of Nazi Germany, it’s doubtful that many of those involved in setting up the minefields were sent to disarm them after the war.
Most people, when confronted with the possibility of execution for refusal, will not become valiant martyrs when presented with a conscription notice. Nor will most people develop in such a way as to preplan their martyrdom against the social norms of their society out of some inborn shared morality. Kids in particular lack the life experience to know just how fucked what they’re being told is. Fuck, man, an entire generation volunteered to die on the fields of WW1 because dumb 18-20 year old kids were told it was sweet and fitting to die for their fucking country.
The point of totalitarian states is the subversion of the whole of society, to the point where it is nearly impossible to get by without some level of ‘compromise’ of oneself. I don’t really see the position that everyone who didn’t resist the Nazis is deserving of a gruesome death. The Morgenthau Plan is more along those lines, if you want to get into the business of genocide-for-genocide.
Anyone wearing a fascist’s uniform is fair game during the war. Anyone wearing a fascist’s uniform should be investigated and prosecuted for anything done during the war. But taking the dregs conscripted by the end of the war and treating them all as full partners in the Nazi experiment, and equally deserving of punishment for the regime’s crimes?
Nah, man. I’m not going to condemn the occupied countries for going that route given their circumstances, but I’m also not going to pretend like it’s not an immensely ugly choice that was made.
Forced to mine at gunpoint.
Forced to demine at gunpoint.
This has nothing to do with anything you posted.
They liked following orders so much.